Accepting Evangelicals
Amazed by Grace - Extracts of an
Interview with author Philip Yancey |
| It was Yancey's
description of his friendship with Mel White in "Grace" that touched me most deeply. White's
story, documented in his own book Stranger at the Gate, has been well documented in the gay
and lesbian community. White was a ghostwriter for such right-wing leaders as Pat Robertson
and Jerry Falwell until he came out. Shunned by his former employees, White went on to found
Soulforce, a social action group dedicated to the spiritual equality of gay, lesbian, bisexual
and transgender believers.
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| Yancey's steadfast
support for his friend Mel, and his own struggle with the sinfulness of homosexuality is
documented in the book and is one of the most honest accounts of grace in the face of struggle
that I believe I have ever read. It was this chapter that led me to write to Yancey and tell
him how much his books had moved me.
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|
He was kind enough to send me a reply that emboldened me to ask for an interview. He agreed to
an email interview, given his busy schedule. I was amazed that he would lend his name to a
publication like Whosoever - and eternally grateful.
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| I cannot recommend
his work strongly enough. If you thirst for grace, peace and joy, read Yancey's works. You
will not be disappointed.
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| Whosoever:
You have a new book out "Rumors of Another World" that is really quite extraordinary. What is
the main thrust of this book and why did you feel led to write it?
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| Philip Yancey
: I wrote it for people in the "borderlands of faith," people who have a spiritual sense but
who, for a variety of reasons, have not found a home in the church. I try to speak their
language, not preaching to them about the things they ought to believe but rather starting
with that spiritual sense--these are the "rumors of another world"--and trying to track some
of those rumors back to the source. OK, I admit that although I had this audience in mind, in
truth I write all my books for myself. I started asking myself, "Philip, can you explain your
faith in a way that makes sense to someone who sees the world very differently than you do?"
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| Whosoever:
In your book "What's so Amazing about Grace?" you tell about your friendship with Soulforce
leader Mel White and your support of him at the March on Washington in 1987. Your description
of your friendship with him and your feelings toward the gays and lesbians you met at the
march was probably the most grace-filled writing I've ever read from an Evangelical Christian.
What is your position on gays and lesbians in the church?
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| Yancey: You
don't beat around the bush, do you? Mel was one of my closest friends for years before he
revealed to me his sexual orientation. (He still is, by the way.) He had repressed and hidden
his homosexuality, and in fact was married and was making a fine career in Christian
publishing and ministry. Mel became a window to me into a world I knew nothing about. He tells
his own story in the book "Stranger at the Gate." Readers of your magazine know well how
explosive this issue can be. I get hate letters full of equal venom from both sides: from
conservative Christians appalled that I would maintain a friendship with Mel and write
compassionately about gays and lesbians, and from the other side wishing I would go further
with a full endorsement.
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| On an issue like
that, I try to start with what I'm absolutely sure of, and work outwards. I'm sure of what my
own attitude should be toward gays and lesbians: I should show love and grace. As one person
told me, "Christians get very angry toward other Christians who sin differently than they do."
When people ask me how I can possibly stay friends with a sinner like Mel, I respond by asking
how Mel can possibly stay friends with a sinner like me. Even if I conclude that all
homosexual behavior is wrong, as many conservative Christians do, I'm still compelled to
respond with love.
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| As I've attended gay
and lesbian churches, I'm also saddened that the evangelical church by and large finds no
place for homosexuals. I've met wonderful, committed Christians who attend MCC churches, and I
wish that the larger church had the benefit of their faith. And at the same time, I think it's
unhealthy to have an entire denomination formed around this one particular issue--those people
need exposure to and inclusion in the wider Body of Christ.
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| When it gets to
particular matters of policy, like ordaining gay and lesbian ministers, I'm confused, like a
lot of people. There are a few--not many, but a few--passages of Scripture that give me pause.
Frankly, I don't know the answer to those questions. I'm a freelancer, not an official church
representative, and I have the luxury of saying simply, "Here's what I think, but I really
don't know," rather than trying to set church policy.
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| The polarization
makes me very sad. My church in Chicago spent a couple of years carefully studying the issue.
The church had openly gay members, but did not allow practicing homosexuals in leadership
positions (as they did not allow unmarried "practicing heterosexuals," whatever that means).
The committee studying the issue looked at the biblical and theological and social aspects and
finally came down in the same place: welcoming but not affirming homosexuals in leadership
roles. Conservatives got mad and left. Many gays and lesbians also left, hurt that the church
reinforced their "second-class citizen" status.
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| I don't have a magic
answer, and I can't see one on the near horizon. Whole denominations are struggling with the
very same issue, as you know.
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| Whosoever:
How can other Evangelical Christians develop an attitude of grace (if not acceptance) toward
gay and lesbian Christians?
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| Yancey: The
only way is through personal exposure. It's amazing how feelings change when suddenly it's
your daughter or your brother who comes out of the closet. In my case, it was my friend Mel.
The issues I had read about suddenly had a face, a person with a story. When that happened,
everything changed. That's one reason why I think it's sad that the churches have so little
contact. I have attended gay and lesbian churches whose fervency and commitment would put most
evangelical churches to shame. Disapproving conservatives should have contact with those
people, and vice versa.
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| Whosoever:
Many gays and lesbians have been harmed by the church's attitude toward them, so much so that
they will never set foot in one again. What do you say to these people who have been
ostracized from the church and who have perhaps lost their faith?
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| Yancey: They
may need a time away from the church. I am convinced, however, that the Christian life is not
meant to be lived alone, in isolation. If a person can't see fit to enter into an
institutional church, at least they should look for a small group or Bible study or some
gathering of live human beings struggling along on the same pilgrimage. I also find it helpful
for a wounded person to look for a radically different kind of worship experience than the one
that wounded them. If they came from an Assemblies of God or Brethren church, try an Orthodox
or Episcopal church, which approaches worship very differently and may not trigger the defense
mechanisms from the past.
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| I could tell you
stories--and in my books I do tell stories--about the church I grew up in. For sheer meanness
and closed-mindedness, it rivals any church I've seen. And yet if I simply gave up on all
faith because of my past church experience, I would be the one who loses most.
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| Whosoever:
When my partner and I moved to a new state, we began searching for a church home. I wrote a
letter to the local Episcopal rector explaining who we were and asked if we would be welcome
in his church. His response, in a nutshell, was that we would be very welcome, if only we gave
up our "sinful lifestyle" and sought out good, Christian (presumably Episcopalian) men to
marry. This is the reaction of many Christian churches to gays and lesbians. We must give up
our sexual orientation to be accepted. What do you say to churches like this?
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| Yancey: I'm
probably not the best person to address a church like that--you are. Obviously, if a church is
saying you need to give up sexual orientation, that church needs some education. I know of
some ministries who try to change sexual behavior, but none that try to change sexual
orientation--all admit that any change involves a lifelong struggle. I would hope a minister
or rector is open to dialogue, and I would hope you have the strength and confidence to sit
down with him and discuss your own story as well as the biblical objections he has.
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| I'm not gay or
lesbian, so I would probably approach that rector differently. I would point to how Jesus
dealt with people who were moral failures--I'm starting where the rector is, who sees you as a
moral failure. Jesus chose one such woman, a woman who had had five failed marriages, as his
first missionary. I would also ask if he requires all who attend his church to leave their
"sins" at the door. Does he interview each person about their sexual activity? Does he exclude
people who show pride, hypocrisy, or legalism, which are the sins that seemed to upset Jesus?
Does he see the church as a place only for people who see things alike, and for people who
have arrived rather than people who are on the way? I'd ask questions like that.
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| copyright 2004 by Candace Chellew-Hodge, all rights reserved
Reposted with permission from Whosoever Magazine, http://www.whosoever.org
Click here for the full interview
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